Comments on: Freedom and Constraints http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/ at the intersection of technology, philosophy, and politics (and some other things). Sat, 22 Nov 2008 13:09:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: heri http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-285 heri Sun, 08 Apr 2007 02:35:18 +0000 http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-285 great post. best i've read in a while. Reminds me that a long time ago, i once thought that men built civilizations and invented machines because they secretly wished that it would make women stop whining http://evry.depeches.free.fr/articles/43.html :-) on a more serious note, i think freedom has many forms and faces. I do not think freedom equals to building the things you want to build. building the things you want to build brings of course a sense of satisfaction and fullfillment, and in a certain way, freedom. I do not know however how to define freedom, which is in the same class as beauty or justice. although I agree with you in the end. building a website and a service is for me much alike architecture. everybody is invited to participate, but in the end, it must stay 'coherent' and the architect must choose a final design, otherwise we would have a crazy multicolor uncoherent mess - a house that wants to please everybody but pleases nobody in the end. just my 0.02 great post. best i’ve read in a while.

Reminds me that a long time ago, i once thought that men built civilizations and invented machines because they secretly wished that it would make women stop whining

http://evry.depeches.free.fr/articles/43.html

:-)

on a more serious note, i think freedom has many forms and faces. I do not think freedom equals to building the things you want to build.

building the things you want to build brings of course a sense of satisfaction and fullfillment, and in a certain way, freedom.

I do not know however how to define freedom, which is in the same class as beauty or justice.

although I agree with you in the end. building a website and a service is for me much alike architecture. everybody is invited to participate, but in the end, it must stay ‘coherent’ and the architect must choose a final design, otherwise we would have a crazy multicolor uncoherent mess - a house that wants to please everybody but pleases nobody in the end.

just my 0.02

]]> By: Hugh http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-225 Hugh Thu, 05 Apr 2007 00:18:58 +0000 http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-225 re: discipline: those who give a negative hoot either get with the program, or get the boot. with librivox, we have the luxury of making participation exclusive ... ie, exclusive to those who agree to the objective: "to make all public domain books available for free, on the internet." if you do not agree with the objective, then there is no reason for you to be there; if you actively hinder the objective, you will be invited to leave; and if you agree with the objective, but not the methods, we again have the luxury of being able to prove our case by our concrete achievement. and this is my argument with people who disagree with the methods of librivox: it is working, and we are convinced it is working *because* of how we do things. So, if you don't like how we do things, you are welcome to argue your case (i think we are pretty open about that, tho maybe others have other opinions) ...and if we really can't come to an agreement, we'll go with the devil we know (ie, the one that has worked so far), and you are welcome to prove us wrong and do better elsewhere. the internet is a big place, and the more public domain audiolit projects, the better. re: reviews: you can see progress on the 52 books: <a href="http://librivox.org/wiki/moin.cgi/HughM#head-a9fcaafdbeb14a81c75f603810a2b3203cecd1ad" rel="nofollow">here.</a> Here is a list of reviews: http://hughmcguire.net/category/review and here is the kafka review: http://hughmcguire.net/2007/01/10/bookreview-kafka-on-the-shore/ re: discipline:
those who give a negative hoot either get with the program, or get the boot. with librivox, we have the luxury of making participation exclusive … ie, exclusive to those who agree to the objective: “to make all public domain books available for free, on the internet.” if you do not agree with the objective, then there is no reason for you to be there; if you actively hinder the objective, you will be invited to leave; and if you agree with the objective, but not the methods, we again have the luxury of being able to prove our case by our concrete achievement. and this is my argument with people who disagree with the methods of librivox: it is working, and we are convinced it is working *because* of how we do things. So, if you don’t like how we do things, you are welcome to argue your case (i think we are pretty open about that, tho maybe others have other opinions) …and if we really can’t come to an agreement, we’ll go with the devil we know (ie, the one that has worked so far), and you are welcome to prove us wrong and do better elsewhere. the internet is a big place, and the more public domain audiolit projects, the better.

re: reviews:
you can see progress on the 52 books: here.

Here is a list of reviews:
http://hughmcguire.net/category/review

and here is the kafka review:
http://hughmcguire.net/2007/01/10/bookreview-kafka-on-the-shore/

]]> By: alan http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-224 alan Wed, 04 Apr 2007 23:45:08 +0000 http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-224 this longish statement is a good beginning, impressive even, but i'd like to see how discipline (self-discipline and the dicipline imposed via feedback) fits in. what you're saying implies that we live in a disciplined world (read: a world of greater or lesser laws.) what happens with those who don't give a hoot? what happened with those who give what we consider to be a negative hoot? how are we related (or relating) to that? also, what happened to your book reviews for the 52 books you're reading this year. i wanted to comment on your (overly brief/cursory) review of Kafka on the Shore. I was very disappointed in both the book and perhaps your review as well... ah, well, feedback is a ficle friend. this longish statement is a good beginning, impressive even, but i’d like to see how discipline (self-discipline and the dicipline imposed via feedback) fits in. what you’re saying implies that we live in a disciplined world (read: a world of greater or lesser laws.) what happens with those who don’t give a hoot? what happened with those who give what we consider to be a negative hoot? how are we related (or relating) to that?

also, what happened to your book reviews for the 52 books you’re reading this year. i wanted to comment on your (overly brief/cursory) review of Kafka on the Shore. I was very disappointed in both the book and perhaps your review as well… ah, well, feedback is a ficle friend.

]]> By: Hugh http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-215 Hugh Wed, 04 Apr 2007 02:09:24 +0000 http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-215 i don't know kristin ... what do you mean, exactly, by: "we all have freedom (completely and utterly)"? what freedom to do ... anything? and sure we are constrained by the consequences of our actions, but we are also constrained by the consequences of others' actions, and the consequences of the laws of physics, and other laws. also, I believe it is a myth that "we can do what we want." could you be a NBA MVP (if you wanted such a thinhg)? Could I be a professional opera singer? The answer is no. We can do some of the things we want, as long as we want reasonable things, and the universe cooperates to some extent. But we most certainly can't always do what we want. i don’t know kristin … what do you mean, exactly, by: “we all have freedom (completely and utterly)”? what freedom to do … anything?

and sure we are constrained by the consequences of our actions, but we are also constrained by the consequences of others’ actions, and the consequences of the laws of physics, and other laws.

also, I believe it is a myth that “we can do what we want.” could you be a NBA MVP (if you wanted such a thinhg)? Could I be a professional opera singer? The answer is no.

We can do some of the things we want, as long as we want reasonable things, and the universe cooperates to some extent. But we most certainly can’t always do what we want.

]]> By: Kristin http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-214 Kristin Wed, 04 Apr 2007 00:52:15 +0000 http://hughmcguire.net/2007/04/03/freedom-and-constraints/#comment-214 Well, I see freedom a bit differently than you do. We all have freedom (completely and utterly) even when we're in the most oppressive situations. The things that restrict us are the consequences of our actions. I think if more people understood that they can do what they want, but they will deal with the consequences whether they accept them or not, discipline would follow. I also think that more people would take responsibility for their actions, rather than blaming them on outside forces. Well, I see freedom a bit differently than you do. We all have freedom (completely and utterly) even when we’re in the most oppressive situations. The things that restrict us are the consequences of our actions. I think if more people understood that they can do what they want, but they will deal with the consequences whether they accept them or not, discipline would follow. I also think that more people would take responsibility for their actions, rather than blaming them on outside forces.

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